Discussion:
Ideals worth striving for.
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John292965
2010-10-29 02:30:51 UTC
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Bert Olton wrote that the Arthurian Legend is an ideal worth striving
for, yet the ideal that is worth striving for is peace not war. War
only teaches the uglness of conflict, although some would argue that I
have never witnessed such things, I wouldn't be too sure aboout the
past, the memories of such things can never be erased in this life or
the next. Then I hope the future brings peace to all.

If that is your ideal you hope for Bert, then it is mine too.

If you where once an old soldier, then I am older than you..

John..
Bert Olton
2010-11-07 03:32:26 UTC
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On 10/28/2010 10:30 PM, John292965 wrote:

[clipped]
Post by John292965
Then I hope the future brings peace to all.
If that is your ideal you hope for Bert, then it is mine too.
Absolutely.
Post by John292965
If you where once an old soldier, then I am older than you..
John..
You may well be. Or, maybe not. Doesn't really matter.

Bert
--
Si vis pacem, para bellum. To those who have served or are serving the
cause of freedom in peace or in war at home or abroad, thank you.
“Let's roll!”, Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, September 11, 2001.
caspar milquetoast
2010-11-20 01:40:25 UTC
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Post by John292965
Bert Olton wrote that the Arthurian Legend is an ideal worth striving
for, yet the ideal that is worth striving for is peace not war. War
only teaches the uglness of conflict, although some would argue that I
have never witnessed such things, I wouldn't be too sure aboout the
past, the memories of such things can never be erased in this life or
the next. Then I hope the future brings peace to all.
If that is your ideal you hope for Bert, then it is mine too.
If you where once an old soldier, then I am older than you..
The romantic medieval legend of Arthur follows a familiar theme commonly
used with great heroes and semi-divine figures throughout the history of
civilisation.

It represents aspirations very attractive to our ancestors. A great
leader whose nobility and superhuman powers lifts him far beyond the
petty realm of squalid humanity, and whose unique place in destiny is
recognised and validated by portents and divine approval.

This allows ordinary people with few rights and difficult lives to
believe in something greater than anything in their world, powers of
strength, wisdom and justice that can be hoped for and valued as ideal
and desirable.

But even in his greatness this noble hero needs to be connected to
ordinary people so that he doesn't become a detached and implausible
idol, and so is tainted with the weakness of humanity that ultimately
leads to tragedy.

This is also necessary to construct a compelling narrative. There is no
story without conflict.

Exactly the same themes were applied to the the life of Jesus Christ.
Regardless of your opinion on the spiritual nature of Christianity, I
would argue that this has little connection to the historical Rabbi
Yeshua of Galilee.

The four gospels upon which Jesus' historicity existed for centuries
were written by unknown authors around a century after he died. There
are no authentic contemporary accounts that support his actual existence
at all.

The gospels are full of traditional hero mythology added to the story to
give authenticity in way which people of that time would value,
understand and accept. His birth was foretold by prophecy, the hour of
his birth was recognised by celestial omens and validated by wisdom
authority figures, his birthplace was cleverly manipulated to allow
fulfillment of three separate messiah prophecies, his parentage was
divine but he was raised in obscurity, his secular lineage was traced
back to royalty, he was ordained by holy acclamation, miracles and acts
of supernatural power were attributed to him, he brought cleansing
revolution to corrupt incumbent authority, ultimately he was betrayed
and met a tragic, noble and sacrificial death, but could never truly be
condemned to mortal death and will return to bring justice, peace and
prosperity.

I would hope we no longer need such mythologising to support our
spiritual beliefs, and we can recognise them for what they were --
whether it is in the possible life of a first century Palestinian
teacher, or the highly unlikely life of a sixth century Romano-British
military leader.
Bert Olton
2010-11-27 16:41:41 UTC
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On 11/19/2010 08:40 PM, caspar milquetoast wrote:

[major clippage]
Post by caspar milquetoast
I would hope we no longer need such mythologising to support our
spiritual beliefs, and we can recognise them for what they were --
whether it is in the possible life of a first century Palestinian
teacher, or the highly unlikely life of a sixth century Romano-British
military leader.
I on the other hand would hope that we *can* look back to such
mythologized heroes and find good examples.



Bert
--
Si vis pacem, para bellum. To those who have served or are serving the
cause of freedom in peace or in war at home or abroad, thank you.
“Let's roll!”, Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, September 11, 2001.
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