Arth(ur)

[John292965]

Doesn't the name Arthur (Arth) mean Bear?..

[John W Kennedy]

Post by John292965
Doesn't the name Arthur (Arth) mean Bear?..

It /might/ be derived from a word meaning "bear", but we don't know that it is.

[Bert Olton]

Post by John W Kennedy

Post by John292965
Doesn't the name Arthur (Arth) mean Bear?..

It /might/ be derived from a word meaning "bear", but we don't know that it is.

Mr. Kennedy is absolutely correct. As an extension to that however,
here's the entry from "The Arthurian Name Dictionary", Christopher W.
Bruce, Garland Publishing, Inc. 1999, page 37:


"It is almost certain that Arthur is a Celtic form of the Roman
'Artorius', which belonged to several Roman figures and to a 'gens', or
clan. It was known in Roman Britain as early as the second century: an
officer named Lucius Artorius Castus led a military excursion into
Brittany around 150 A. D.
Certain scholars have proposed alternatives to this theory. E. W. B.
Nicholson regards Arthur as a combination of two Celtic words: 'artos'
(“bear”) and 'viros' (“man”), which would make Arthur's name a metaphor
for a strong warrior: “Bear-Man”. A. Holder proposed a connection with
the Irish 'art' (“stone”), and M. Műller tried to link Arthur to a
culture-divinity in part by noting that the Aryan term for “to plough”
is 'ar' (Bruce, 4n). None of these theories have won wide acceptance."


Bert

[John292965]

Post by John W Kennedy

Post by John292965
Doesn't the name Arthur (Arth) mean Bear?..

It /might/ be derived from a word meaning "bear", but we don't know that it is.

Mr. Kennedy is absolutely correct.  As an extension to that however,
here's the entry from "The Arthurian Name Dictionary", Christopher W.
"It is almost certain that Arthur is a Celtic form of the Roman
'Artorius', which belonged to several Roman figures and to a 'gens', or
clan.  It was known in Roman Britain as early as the second century: an
officer named Lucius Artorius Castus led a military excursion into
Brittany around 150 A. D.
        Certain scholars have proposed alternatives to this theory.  E. W. B.
Nicholson regards Arthur as a combination of two Celtic words: 'artos'
(“bear”) and 'viros' (“man”), which would make Arthur's name a metaphor
for a strong warrior: “Bear-Man”.  A. Holder proposed a connection with
the Irish 'art' (“stone”), and M. Műller tried to link Arthur to a
culture-divinity in part by noting that the Aryan term for “to plough”
is 'ar' (Bruce, 4n).  None of these theories have won wide acceptance."
Bert
--
Si vis pacem, para bellum.  To those who have served or are serving the
cause of freedom in peace or in war at home or abroad, thank you. “Let's
roll!”, Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, September 11, 2001.

Lucius Artorius Castus was a roman then?, I didn't know that verry
interesting, wonder if his friends knew him as just 'Lucius', the name
Artorius (Arthur) known to others?. After the roman occupation of
brittain was the time that saw remnants of Roman (military) trying to
keep power in the island, and no doubt generals as such. Verry
interesting. May there have been more than one Lucius (farthered
children) or just somone with the same name?... He must have been a
brave and couragous leader whoever he was, as they say, clothes not
maketh a man, only the man maketh the legend.

They must have been great men because he and merlin had so much
written about them as legends and myths by oral and written
traditions.

You are right this newsgroup is not used much now, have you tried
facebook it's much better.

John.

[John W Kennedy]

Post by John292965

Post by John W Kennedy

Post by John292965
Doesn't the name Arthur (Arth) mean Bear?..

It /might/ be derived from a word meaning "bear", but we don't know that it is.

Mr. Kennedy is absolutely correct.  As an extension to that however,
here's the entry from "The Arthurian Name Dictionary", Christopher W.
"It is almost certain that Arthur is a Celtic form of the Roman
'Artorius', which belonged to several Roman figures and to a 'gens', or
clan.  It was known in Roman Britain as early as the second century: an
officer named Lucius Artorius Castus led a military excursion into
Brittany around 150 A. D.
        Certain scholars have proposed alternatives to this theory.  E. W. B.
Nicholson regards Arthur as a combination of two Celtic words: 'artos'
(“bear”) and 'viros' (“man”), which would make Arthur's name a metaphor
for a strong warrior: “Bear-Man”.  A. Holder proposed a connection with
the Irish 'art' (“stone”), and M. Műller tried to link Arthur to a
culture-divinity in part by noting that the Aryan term for “to plough”
is 'ar' (Bruce, 4n).  None of these theories have won wide acceptance."
Bert
--
Si vis pacem, para bellum.  To those who have served or are serving the
cause of freedom in peace or in war at home or abroad, thank you. “Let's
roll!”, Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, September 11, 2001.

Lucius Artorius Castus was a roman then?,

He certainly had a Roman identity; we don't know anything about his ancestry.

Post by John292965
I didn't know that verry
interesting, wonder if his friends knew him as just 'Lucius', the name
Artorius (Arthur) known to others?.

The Romans only had a couple dozen first names for men. Except in the
immediate family circle, /no/ Roman was known by his first name only.
("Mind if we call you 'Bruce' to keep it clear?")

Post by John292965
After the roman occupation of
brittain was the time that saw remnants of Roman (military) trying to
keep power in the island, and no doubt generals as such. Verry
interesting. May there have been more than one Lucius (farthered
children) or just somone with the same name?... He must have been a
brave and couragous leader whoever he was, as they say, clothes not
maketh a man, only the man maketh the legend.

The Lucius Artorius Castus we know about lived centuries before the
withdrawal of the legions, but he certainly could have had sons, all of
whom would have been [something] Artorius Castus. But, more
interestingly, he was in command of the Samartian enclave in Britain.
It's even possible that the Sarmatians could have picked up the name
"Artorius" as a title, as happened with "Caesar".

[caspar milquetoast]

Post by John W Kennedy
The Lucius Artorius Castus we know about lived centuries before the
withdrawal of the legions, but he certainly could have had sons, all of
whom would have been [something] Artorius Castus. But, more
interestingly, he was in command of the Samartian enclave in Britain.
It's even possible that the Sarmatians could have picked up the name
"Artorius" as a title, as happened with "Caesar".

And of course it makes far more sense that the legend of Arthur derived
from an historical but completely obscure Roman who lived centuries
before the time usually connected with Arthur, simply through the
happenstance of someone digging up a bit of stone with his name
inscribed on it.

Far more sense than the legend of Arthur being derived from the sizable
canon of Welsh myths centred around the imaginary folk hero Arthur.

Right.

[John W Kennedy]

Post by caspar milquetoast

Post by John W Kennedy
The Lucius Artorius Castus we know about lived centuries before the
withdrawal of the legions, but he certainly could have had sons, all of
whom would have been [something] Artorius Castus. But, more
interestingly, he was in command of the Samartian enclave in Britain.
It's even possible that the Sarmatians could have picked up the name
"Artorius" as a title, as happened with "Caesar".

And of course it makes far more sense that the legend of Arthur derived
from an historical but completely obscure Roman who lived centuries
before the time usually connected with Arthur, simply through the
happenstance of someone digging up a bit of stone with his name
inscribed on it.
Far more sense than the legend of Arthur being derived from the sizable
canon of Welsh myths centred around the imaginary folk hero Arthur.

Except that we /know/ that some of the Arthurian legends are, in fact,
older than Arthur, and of Sarmatian provenance, and we /know/ that
Lucius Artorius Castus was the commander of the Sarmatian-recruited
Roman troops that eventually formed a long-lasting Sarmatian enclave in
Britain.