The women involved

[Doug Laidlaw]

Yesterday at the library, on top of a pile of DVDs, there was one
purporting to tell the Arturian legend from the point of view of three
women.

There was Viviane, the Lady of the Lake; Morgause, the mother of Mordred,
and I have forgotten who the third one was. Perhaps it was Morgan le Fay,
but she seems to be a later addition, and appears in several European
legends as well. I don't think that it was Guinevere.

It sounds very much like a ladies' movie, but the very idea interested me.
I often wonder how really feminine the Vivianes and the like really were.
Morgause was totally (?) mortal, Arthur's half-sister. Perhaps the
incident described by T.H. White (the only complete Arthurian book I have
read) would not have happened if either had known of the relationship.
White suggests not only that if they had not slept together, there would
have been no Mordred, but the very fact of their doing so was a breach of
Divine law, a sin, and everything else was a punishment for it, although
neither knew that it was wrong.

Doug.

[Qur'mudjin]

Doug, Greetings & Felicitations!


It sounds like you're talking about "The Mists of Avalon" adapted from
the book by Marion Zimmer Bradley and starring Anjelica Huston, Julianna
Margulies, and Joan Allen as Viviane, Morgaine and Morgause, respectively.
Bradley is a fantastic writer and the book should be read. The movie is
lacking in several respects but worth the time if it's a free loaner from
the library.

Checkyalater,
--------------
Jim Corveddu * ***@earthlink.net

Arma virumque flavum atque mortuum cano

Post by Doug Laidlaw
Yesterday at the library, on top of a pile of DVDs, there was one
purporting to tell the Arturian legend from the point of view of three
women.
There was Viviane, the Lady of the Lake; Morgause, the mother of Mordred,
and I have forgotten who the third one was. Perhaps it was Morgan le Fay,
but she seems to be a later addition, and appears in several European
legends as well. I don't think that it was Guinevere.
It sounds very much like a ladies' movie, but the very idea interested me.
I often wonder how really feminine the Vivianes and the like really were.
Morgause was totally (?) mortal, Arthur's half-sister. Perhaps the
incident described by T.H. White (the only complete Arthurian book I have
read) would not have happened if either had known of the relationship.
White suggests not only that if they had not slept together, there would
have been no Mordred, but the very fact of their doing so was a breach of
Divine law, a sin, and everything else was a punishment for it, although
neither knew that it was wrong.
Doug.

[PAUL GADZIKOWSKI]

'The Once and Future King' is my favorite clasical retelling of the
legends and 'The Mists of Avalon' is my favorite revisionist retelling.


Paul Gadzikowski, ***@iglou.com since 1995
http://members.iglou.com/scarfman/new.htm Fanfiction stories and cartoons.
http://www.arthurkingoftimeandspace.com New cartoons daily.

"But what if they have motorbikes? Motorbikes from the war?"

[solitaire]

Post by Doug Laidlaw
Yesterday at the library, on top of a pile of DVDs, there was one
purporting to tell the Arturian legend from the point of view of three
women.
There was Viviane, the Lady of the Lake; Morgause, the mother of Mordred,
and I have forgotten who the third one was. Perhaps it was Morgan le Fay,
but she seems to be a later addition, and appears in several European
legends as well. I don't think that it was Guinevere.
It sounds very much like a ladies' movie, but the very idea interested me.
I often wonder how really feminine the Vivianes and the like really were.
Morgause was totally (?) mortal, Arthur's half-sister. Perhaps the
incident described by T.H. White (the only complete Arthurian book I have
read) would not have happened if either had known of the relationship.
White suggests not only that if they had not slept together, there would
have been no Mordred, but the very fact of their doing so was a breach of
Divine law, a sin, and everything else was a punishment for it, although
neither knew that it was wrong.
Doug.

MISTS OF AVALON, made from the idiotic book of the same title.

[Franklin Cross]

Post by Doug Laidlaw
Yesterday at the library, on top of a pile of DVDs, there was one
purporting to tell the Arturian legend from the point of view of three
women.
There was Viviane, the Lady of the Lake; Morgause, the mother of Mordred,
and I have forgotten who the third one was. Perhaps it was Morgan le Fay,
but she seems to be a later addition, and appears in several European
legends as well. I don't think that it was Guinevere.
It sounds very much like a ladies' movie, but the very idea interested me.
I often wonder how really feminine the Vivianes and the like really were.
Morgause was totally (?) mortal, Arthur's half-sister. Perhaps the
incident described by T.H. White (the only complete Arthurian book I have
read) would not have happened if either had known of the relationship.
White suggests not only that if they had not slept together, there would
have been no Mordred, but the very fact of their doing so was a breach of
Divine law, a sin, and everything else was a punishment for it, although
neither knew that it was wrong.
Doug.

Yes, in fact in Arthur's first meeting with Merlin, he is told outright that
he will eventually die for this sin which was most woeful in the eyes of the
Lord. That he will be slain by the son he sired out of this sin. That is
when Arthur makes an almost Biblical decree that all the babies born on a
certain day (may day? - i don't recall) should be slain or else sent away on
a ship, and that ship crashes and only Modred survives.

BTW - of all the ladies in Arthurian tales, my favorite has to be
Maledistant, the damsel that sternly rebuked Le Cote Male Taile while he was
forced to suffer her on his adventure. Her rebukes were often pretty
hilarious, and the whole Le Cote Male Taile suffering them and smiling.
Nothing in Malory is more humorous than when Belorbis and then Palomides
serve Le Cote Male Taile to the earth astonied, then refuse to fight him on
foot. Then Maledistant tells him that such great gentlemen would never
debase themselves by battling with such a lewd knight. LOL I was just
thinking about how Sir Kay knighted Dagonet (the fool) and sent him to joust
with him. ROFLMAO

[Doug Laidlaw]

Post by Franklin Cross

Post by Doug Laidlaw
Yesterday at the library, on top of a pile of DVDs, there was one
purporting to tell the Arturian legend from the point of view of three
women.
There was Viviane, the Lady of the Lake; Morgause, the mother of Mordred,
and I have forgotten who the third one was. Perhaps it was Morgan le
Fay, but she seems to be a later addition, and appears in several
European
legends as well. I don't think that it was Guinevere.
It sounds very much like a ladies' movie, but the very idea interested
me. I often wonder how really feminine the Vivianes and the like really
were.
Morgause was totally (?) mortal, Arthur's half-sister. Perhaps the
incident described by T.H. White (the only complete Arthurian book I have
read) would not have happened if either had known of the relationship.
White suggests not only that if they had not slept together, there would
have been no Mordred, but the very fact of their doing so was a breach of
Divine law, a sin, and everything else was a punishment for it, although
neither knew that it was wrong.
Doug.

Yes, in fact in Arthur's first meeting with Merlin, he is told outright
that he will eventually die for this sin which was most woeful in the eyes
of the Lord. That he will be slain by the son he sired out of this sin.
That is when Arthur makes an almost Biblical decree that all the babies
born on a certain day (may day? - i don't recall) should be slain or else
sent away on a ship, and that ship crashes and only Modred survives.
BTW - of all the ladies in Arthurian tales, my favorite has to be
Maledistant, the damsel that sternly rebuked Le Cote Male Taile while he
was forced to suffer her on his adventure. Her rebukes were often pretty
hilarious, and the whole Le Cote Male Taile suffering them and smiling.
Nothing in Malory is more humorous than when Belorbis and then Palomides
serve Le Cote Male Taile to the earth astonied, then refuse to fight him
on foot. Then Maledistant tells him that such great gentlemen would never
debase themselves by battling with such a lewd knight. LOL I was just
thinking about how Sir Kay knighted Dagonet (the fool) and sent him to joust
with him. ROFLMAO

Malory is used by White as his main source apparently. White says that
Arthur had never been told who his mother was. That seems odd in ordinary
human terms, but so does the idea of Uther marrying Igraine the day after
he killed her husband. Even the Hamlet story wasn't that close.

Anyway, I just thought that I would mention the movie.

Doug.