Discussion:
The Matter of Britain in 20 episodes
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WebSlave
2011-09-14 00:57:48 UTC
Permalink
I've been back into Arthurian matters lately (after a long gap). Just
the other night I came up with an idea...

Some years ago there was in Finland a radio documentary series about
the Viking era. Two guys were visiting places of signifigance while
discussing different aspects of that era and the Viking culture - and
how the myth about Vikings came about.

I started to think how the same would work on King Arthur. The subject
is quite a bit more complicated and blurry, so there should be lots of
different angles to approach it. Now how could it sensibly be
separated to episodes?

So far I've come up with these:

THE GRAIL MYTH
What is the Grail and how it got connected with Arthur? The Joseph of
Arimathea story. (The rest is left for later.)

THE EARLY ARTHUR
Welsh tradition, Gildas, Nennius leading to Geoffrey.

BRITAIN IN ARTHUR'S TIME
Leaving of the Romans, power vacuum, small Briton kingdoms and the
Saxon threat.

MERLIN
Myrddin and Lailoken, Geoffrey and Boron. Connecting to Arthur.

CAMELOT
Introduction to the Cycle and the candidates. Historicity.

THE ROUND TABLE
Introduction to the Cycle, size and history, Siege Perilous?

DEVELOPMENT OF THE LEGEND
Geoffrey's translators and developers, Chretien and Vulgate Cycle. The
medieval success.

LANCELOT
Blurry origins, Melegant-story, from Chretien to Vulgate Cycle.

TRISTAN
Independent development, connecting it to Arthur.

THE REAL ARTHUR
The name, Riothamus and other candidates

ADVENTUS SAXONUM
The real and fictional coming of the Saxons.

LE MORTE D'ARTHUR
Malory deserves an episodes. Sources, influence.

MODERN RETELLINGS
How modern retellings have departed from the traditional image.

THE GRAIL QUEST
Development of the Perceval story and Galahad version. Symbolism?

THE FALL OF ARTHUR
Events leading to the fall of the Kingdom

AFTER ARTHUR
Historical look at Britain in 550's.

There probably should be takes on Avalon, Morgan le Fay, Gawain (and
the Greene Knight) and from the historical side, religion (St.
Germain, St. Patrick, Pelagianism and Saxon and Briton paganism.)

Have I forgotten something essential? Should the "Northern Arthur"
theories have an episode? Any suggestions?

-Webs-
John W Kennedy
2011-09-14 15:15:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by WebSlave
I've been back into Arthurian matters lately (after a long gap). Just
the other night I came up with an idea...
Some years ago there was in Finland a radio documentary series about
the Viking era. Two guys were visiting places of signifigance while
discussing different aspects of that era and the Viking culture - and
how the myth about Vikings came about.
I started to think how the same would work on King Arthur. The subject
is quite a bit more complicated and blurry, so there should be lots of
different angles to approach it. Now how could it sensibly be
separated to episodes?
THE GRAIL MYTH
What is the Grail and how it got connected with Arthur? The Joseph of
Arimathea story. (The rest is left for later.)
THE EARLY ARTHUR
Welsh tradition, Gildas, Nennius leading to Geoffrey.
BRITAIN IN ARTHUR'S TIME
Leaving of the Romans, power vacuum, small Briton kingdoms and the
Saxon threat.
MERLIN
Myrddin and Lailoken, Geoffrey and Boron. Connecting to Arthur.
CAMELOT
Introduction to the Cycle and the candidates. Historicity.
THE ROUND TABLE
Introduction to the Cycle, size and history, Siege Perilous?
DEVELOPMENT OF THE LEGEND
Geoffrey's translators and developers, Chretien and Vulgate Cycle. The
medieval success.
LANCELOT
Blurry origins, Melegant-story, from Chretien to Vulgate Cycle.
TRISTAN
Independent development, connecting it to Arthur.
THE REAL ARTHUR
The name, Riothamus and other candidates
ADVENTUS SAXONUM
The real and fictional coming of the Saxons.
LE MORTE D'ARTHUR
Malory deserves an episodes. Sources, influence.
MODERN RETELLINGS
How modern retellings have departed from the traditional image.
THE GRAIL QUEST
Development of the Perceval story and Galahad version. Symbolism?
THE FALL OF ARTHUR
Events leading to the fall of the Kingdom
AFTER ARTHUR
Historical look at Britain in 550's.
There probably should be takes on Avalon, Morgan le Fay, Gawain (and
the Greene Knight) and from the historical side, religion (St.
Germain, St. Patrick, Pelagianism and Saxon and Briton paganism.)
Have I forgotten something essential? Should the "Northern Arthur"
theories have an episode? Any suggestions?
I don't think you can leave out the Sarmatian connection. On the other
hand, I don't see what Pelagianism has to do directly with Arthur. (And
the question of whether Pelagius was a Pelagian is enough to drive one
mad.)
--
John W Kennedy
"Compact is becoming contract,
Man only earns and pays."
-- Charles Williams. "Bors to Elayne: On the King's Coins"
WebSlave
2011-09-15 11:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
I don't think you can leave out the Sarmatian connection.
That wasn't my intent. It would be handled in THE REAL ARTHUR episode
with the other theories.
Post by John W Kennedy
On the other hand, I don't see what Pelagianism has to do directly
with Arthur.
Directly, nothing. That would be more about explaining the society of
the 5th century Britain. Of course, St. Germanus supposedly rooted
Pelagianism single-handidly before the traditional Arthurian era, but
things don't really happen that way. If Pelagianism was popular before
Germanus' visit, it certainly didn't miraculously cease to exist
overnight.

-Webs-
John W Kennedy
2011-09-15 13:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by WebSlave
Post by John W Kennedy
I don't think you can leave out the Sarmatian connection.
That wasn't my intent. It would be handled in THE REAL ARTHUR episode
with the other theories.
Post by John W Kennedy
On the other hand, I don't see what Pelagianism has to do directly
with Arthur.
Directly, nothing. That would be more about explaining the society of
the 5th century Britain. Of course, St. Germanus supposedly rooted
Pelagianism single-handidly before the traditional Arthurian era, but
things don't really happen that way. If Pelagianism was popular before
Germanus' visit, it certainly didn't miraculously cease to exist
overnight.
Seems to me Germanus himself has more to do with Arthur than Pelagianism does.
--
John W Kennedy
If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it
to Windows?
WebSlave
2011-09-15 20:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
Seems to me Germanus himself has more to do with Arthur than
Pelagianism does.
Not by much, as far as I can think of. What do you have in mind?

-Webs-
John W Kennedy
2011-09-16 16:30:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by WebSlave
Post by John W Kennedy
Seems to me Germanus himself has more to do with Arthur than
Pelagianism does.
Not by much, as far as I can think of. What do you have in mind?
Said to have victoriously led a British army against a combined force
of Picts and Saxons.
--
John W Kennedy
A proud member of the reality-based community.
WebSlave
2011-09-17 19:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by John W Kennedy
Post by WebSlave
Not by much, as far as I can think of. What do you have in mind?
Said to have victoriously led a British army against a combined force
of Picts and Saxons.
Oh, you meant as having parallel achievements. True, I didn't think of
that.

-Webs-
caspar milquetoast
2011-09-28 04:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by WebSlave
I've been back into Arthurian matters lately (after a long gap). Just
the other night I came up with an idea...
Some years ago there was in Finland a radio documentary series about
the Viking era. Two guys were visiting places of signifigance while
discussing different aspects of that era and the Viking culture - and
how the myth about Vikings came about.
I started to think how the same would work on King Arthur. The subject
is quite a bit more complicated and blurry, so there should be lots of
different angles to approach it. Now how could it sensibly be
separated to episodes?
THE GRAIL MYTH
What is the Grail and how it got connected with Arthur? The Joseph of
Arimathea story. (The rest is left for later.)
THE EARLY ARTHUR
Welsh tradition, Gildas, Nennius leading to Geoffrey.
BRITAIN IN ARTHUR'S TIME
Leaving of the Romans, power vacuum, small Briton kingdoms and the
Saxon threat.
MERLIN
Myrddin and Lailoken, Geoffrey and Boron. Connecting to Arthur.
CAMELOT
Introduction to the Cycle and the candidates. Historicity.
THE ROUND TABLE
Introduction to the Cycle, size and history, Siege Perilous?
DEVELOPMENT OF THE LEGEND
Geoffrey's translators and developers, Chretien and Vulgate Cycle. The
medieval success.
LANCELOT
Blurry origins, Melegant-story, from Chretien to Vulgate Cycle.
TRISTAN
Independent development, connecting it to Arthur.
THE REAL ARTHUR
The name, Riothamus and other candidates
ADVENTUS SAXONUM
The real and fictional coming of the Saxons.
LE MORTE D'ARTHUR
Malory deserves an episodes. Sources, influence.
MODERN RETELLINGS
How modern retellings have departed from the traditional image.
THE GRAIL QUEST
Development of the Perceval story and Galahad version. Symbolism?
THE FALL OF ARTHUR
Events leading to the fall of the Kingdom
AFTER ARTHUR
Historical look at Britain in 550's.
There probably should be takes on Avalon, Morgan le Fay, Gawain (and
the Greene Knight) and from the historical side, religion (St.
Germain, St. Patrick, Pelagianism and Saxon and Briton paganism.)
Have I forgotten something essential? Should the "Northern Arthur"
theories have an episode? Any suggestions?
Forget radio -- I want a TV series as outlined above, and I want it NOW!
WebSlave
2011-10-08 16:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by caspar milquetoast
Post by WebSlave
I've been back into Arthurian matters lately (after a long gap). Just
the other night I came up with an idea...
Some years ago there was in Finland a radio documentary series about
the Viking era. Two guys were visiting places of signifigance while
discussing different aspects of that era and the Viking culture - and
how the myth about Vikings came about.
I started to think how the same would work on King Arthur. The subject
is quite a bit more complicated and blurry, so there should be lots of
different angles to approach it. Now how could it sensibly be
separated to episodes?
THE GRAIL MYTH
What is the Grail and how it got connected with Arthur? The Joseph of
Arimathea story. (The rest is left for later.)
THE EARLY ARTHUR
Welsh tradition, Gildas, Nennius leading to Geoffrey.
BRITAIN IN ARTHUR'S TIME
Leaving of the Romans, power vacuum, small Briton kingdoms and the
Saxon threat.
MERLIN
Myrddin and Lailoken, Geoffrey and Boron. Connecting to Arthur.
CAMELOT
Introduction to the Cycle and the candidates. Historicity.
THE ROUND TABLE
Introduction to the Cycle, size and history, Siege Perilous?
DEVELOPMENT OF THE LEGEND
Geoffrey's translators and developers, Chretien and Vulgate Cycle. The
medieval success.
LANCELOT
Blurry origins, Melegant-story, from Chretien to Vulgate Cycle.
TRISTAN
Independent development, connecting it to Arthur.
THE REAL ARTHUR
The name, Riothamus and other candidates
ADVENTUS SAXONUM
The real and fictional coming of the Saxons.
LE MORTE D'ARTHUR
Malory deserves an episodes. Sources, influence.
MODERN RETELLINGS
How modern retellings have departed from the traditional image.
THE GRAIL QUEST
Development of the Perceval story and Galahad version. Symbolism?
THE FALL OF ARTHUR
Events leading to the fall of the Kingdom
AFTER ARTHUR
Historical look at Britain in 550's.
There probably should be takes on Avalon, Morgan le Fay, Gawain (and
the Greene Knight) and from the historical side, religion (St.
Germain, St. Patrick, Pelagianism and Saxon and Briton paganism.)
Have I forgotten something essential? Should the "Northern Arthur"
theories have an episode? Any suggestions?
Forget radio -- I want a TV series as outlined above, and I want it NOW!
Sure, who wouldn't? But the problem is it would cost at least 50 times
more. Besides, I've grown weary of this modern trend of docutainment.
Seems like everything has to be presented as revealing great mysteries
and the presenters to be shown as sort of Indiana Joneses. TV requires
visual appeal, and - it seems - a plot.

I want a more laid back approach. No fuss, no re-enactment, no sense
of great mysteries revealed. More like discussing the subject over a
pint.

-Webs-

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